Sean Meriwether Interviews Salvatore Sapienza about his debut novel Seventy Time Seven

Sean Meriwether: One of the quotes you use in the book, taken from The Confessions of Saint Augustine beautifully sums up the novel. “Give me the chastity and self-restraint, but just not right now.” How do you see that applying to Vito’s life?

Salvatore Sapienza: Augustine went from a life of heavy partying to the life of a saint, but even he was aware that it would be a gradual process. I think Vito sees things the same way for himself. He has a desire to commit fully to the church at some point, but those in his religious order seem to want this to happen overnight. This is why I’m so wary of those instant born-again Christians. Discovering our spirit is a life long process fraught with imperfection.

Meriwether: At the beginning of the novel, Vito’s life seems so extreme. He’s at a sex club one minute and in church the next. He goes from dancing shirtless at the Roxy one night, to teaching Catholic school students the next morning. I really like how the pop culture references in the book relate to Vito’s struggle.

Sapienza: The book is set in 1992, and many of the popular artists at the time—Prince, Madonna, Depeche Mode, Sinead O’Connor—were juxtaposing sexuality and spirituality in their music. So, it’s the perfect background for what Vito’s going through in the novel. Those artists were pushing the nation’s buttons, saying that yes, we are sexual beings, but we can also be spiritual beings. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Meriwether: Vito sees spirituality in everything around him, especially music. He turns to music for inspiration and guidance. How did music influence his decisions throughout the novel?

Sapienza: Through the years, gay men always seem to find inspiration and connection to musical performers, from Judy to Barbra to Kylie. Like many young men, Vito is influenced by music and pop culture. The novel is set in 1992 and artists at the time, like Madonna, Prince, Sinead O’Connor, and George Michael, were juxtaposing spirituality and sexuality in their music. These artists pushed a lot of society’s buttons, because they were demonstrating that one could be both spiritual and sexual. The lyrics to these songs often speak to Vito’s heart much more so than the words from Scripture, which tend keep these two worlds at bay.

Meriwether: Speaking of which, I really like the iTunes iMix on your website. That’s something unique for a book.

Sapienza: Music plays such an important role in Vito’s life and is integral to the novel. Unfortunately, for royalty reasons, I was only allowed to use two lines per song. The iMix was a way to give readers the tunes in their entireties. All of the songs included are from the time period the novel is set, when many artists were combining sexuality and spirituality in their lyrics. I added two recent tunes, Robbie Williams’ “Feel” and Ari Gold’s “Bashert,” because I listened to them at length while I was writing the novel. They were my muses. My two hot muses! (laughs).

Meriwether: When I first picked up Seventy Times Seven, I thought it would be about some closeted priest struggling with his sexuality, but it’s not about that at all.

Salvatore Sapienza: I was so not interested in telling that story. Let’s face it, it’s been done. What I was interested in was exploring a young gay man’s desire for incorporating spirituality into his life. For the main character, Vito, being gay is not the struggle. Trying to incorporate his sexual nature with his spiritual nature is the problem. The gay men he encounters denounce religion, just as the strongly as the church denounces them.

Meriwether: Yet Vito feels he must choose between living life as an “active” gay man or a celibate Brother. Committing fully to either side comes with sacrificing the other. Do you believe we can find a happy medium between those extremes?

Sapienza: I do know quite a few Catholic priests and brothers who are gay, yet lead a celibate life. It’s a real struggle for them, of course, but they see it as a sacrifice they’re willing to make as part of their commitment to the church. On one hand, I so admire their desires to help to change the church from within. If we all leave—like I did—then we’re doing exactly what the hierarchy wants us to do. On the other hand, I do believe that repressing our sexuality is unhealthy for our bodies and spirits, and not something a loving God would ask of us.

Meriwether: Do you feel the Catholic Church would appeal to more young people in search of spirituality if it allowed them to forgo the vow of chastity and live with a partner, as most other religions do?

Sapienza: Absolutely. I don’t see any valid reason why the Catholic Church requires the vow of chastity for its clergy. Service to the church should be open to anyone - male or female, gay or straight - who feels called. If ones so desires to choose celibacy for himself, I think that’s fine, but it shouldn’t be a requirement. As many other religious denominations have demonstrated throughout the years, coupled persons (both gay and straight) make wonderful clergy members and, in some ways, are more in tuned with the needs of their parishioners.

Meriwether: Over the years the church has actively alienated those it felt was different, especially homosexuals, although Christ taught us to treat everyone with love and respect. The pope, who is rumored to be gay himself, has renewed the crusade to rid the pulpit of all homosexuals. What message does that send and already fractured and diminishing congregation?

Sapienza: I feel so much of the new pope’s mean-spirited crusade to rid the church of homosexual clergy members is in large part due to the sexual molestation scandals that have rocked the church in recent years. Of course, the two issues have little to do with one another, but the hierarchy seems intent on placing blame, rather than taking responsibility.

Meriwether: Speaking of conflict, Vito has a such a wonderful way with other people, allowing the freedom to be honest with themselves and others, yet he has so much trouble doing this for himself? What causes this conflict in him?

Sapienza: Vito—like a lot of people drawn to the helping professions —places more emphasis on ministering to others needs, rather than dealing with his own. He wants to be all things to all people, a pioneer bridging the gap between the gay community and the church. Many good-hearted people have the admirable notion that they can change the world, but often they fail to see the changes they need to make within themselves.

Meriwether: You came out at seventeen and lived the gay New York City lifestyle. What then made you decide to enter religious life and take the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience?

Sapienza: Like Vito, I was not some closet case entering the church so I could hide, although there were plenty of guys who did. I knew that God had made me gay, and I was open about it to my superiors before I entered the church. My decision to enter was based on two things: my dissatisfaction with the hedonistic gay life I was exposed to in Manhattan, and my desire to address the spiritual needs of the burgeoning AIDS crisis. I thought there had to be more to life than going clubbing, hitting the gym, and wearing the right clothes. And, let’s face it, it wasn’t a bad time for a young gay man to be celibate. I naively believed that I and the other forward-thinking men who joined with me could make a difference in bringing the church into the twenty-first century. Not surprisingly, most of us left after just a few years.

Meriwether: What ultimately made you decide to leave the church?

Sapienza: For the most part, I was faithful to my vows, but I was leading two lives, and I desperately prayed to be made whole. For some reason, I could not fully embrace either world. Everyone gay I knew rejected any notion of spirituality, and anything sexual—especially homosexual—was condemned by the church. The two lives were pulling at me from either end, and it was an unhealthy place for me to be. For the sake of my mental well-being, I had to choose. And, I chose to leave the church.

Meriwether: What is your religious affiliation these days?

Sapienza: I do have a great love for the Catholic Church, believe it or not. I still have friends who are priests, Brothers, and nuns, and they’re healthy individuals doing great work. However, the current Pope’s desire to rid the clergy of gay priests is so mean-spirited and quite the opposite of what Jesus instructed, that I can not in good conscience remain a Catholic. I suppose I’m a Christian, though, to the extent that I believe Jesus led an exemplary life worth imitating.

Meriwether: There are many gay men for whom the idea of being gay and Christian seems oxymoronic.

Sapienza: I can totally understand that. Most gay men who were raised Christian have so much hatred for organized religion, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, that’s turned many gay men off from any type of spiritual life, and I think that’s a shame. On the other hand, many of my gay friends in recent years have studied Buddhism or practice Kabbalah, so I think there’s definitely a growing desire among us to connect with the spirit.

Meriwether: Since many gay men have been turned off and away by organized religion, how do you see us recapturing our spirituality?

Sapienza: Since many of us grew up in organized religions that renounced us as immoral, it makes perfect sense why we, as out adults, would want to have nothing to do with religion. Unfortunately, by getting rid of religion in our lives, many of us have also jettisoned any notion of spirituality. It’s like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Like Vito's struggle within the novel, many of us think that our sexuality is incompatible with any time of spirituality. That’s too bad. Happily, though, I’ve noticed that some of my gay friends have gravitated towards some of the principles of Buddhism and Kabbalah, so there’s definitely a desire among us to connect to the spirit. Organized religion may be the enemy, but spirituality certainly is not.

Meriwether: How much of Seventy Times Seven is autobiographical?

Sapienza: About half, but which half, I’m not going to tell you (laughs). I don’t mean to be evasive. Much of what happens to Vito is based on what happened to me, but it would be inaccurate to call the book autobiographical. I liked the freedom of writing a novel, as I was able to create a cohesive and symbolic narrative, and one that, hopefully, readers will find engaging and thought-provoking.

 

Read more about Seventy Times Seven at:
70x7book.com
Read an excerpt of Seventy Times Seven

Sean Meriwether’s fiction has appeared in Best Gay Love Stories 2006, Hot Cops, Best of the Best Gay Erotica 2, and other notorious publications. His first collection of short fiction, The Silent Hustler, will be released by Suspect Thoughts Press in 2009. In addition to managing Velvet Mafia, he co-edited Men of Mystery: Homoerotic Tales of Intrigue and Suspense with Greg Wharton. Sean lives in New York with his partner, photographer Jack Slomovits, and their two dogs. If you are interested in reading more of his work, stalk him online @ penboy7.com.